What's so good about Vampiric? - Guild Wars Forums

Absolute Destiny · Aug 07, 2011, 02:30 AM // 02:30

I keep seeing recommendations to use Vampiric mods in the various PvE forums.
I've read that, numerically speaking, Vampiric weapons do more damage because of the life drain.

However, my own experience with Vampiric weapons (that being on an Assassin), have been less than stellar.

Enemies die so fast that the self-drain actually has more impact than taking health from them, even spamming dagger attacks as quickly as possible.
So I end up charging in with my Vamp daggers, killing everything in sight, then having to switch to non-Vamp daggers before my health gets too low.

Using non-Vamp daggers renders the EXACT same result, without having to worry about my own weapons killing me.

In 90% of situations, I've ended a fight thinking "Why didn't I just use my non-Vamp daggers and save myself the trouble?"

So what's the big deal with Vampiric weapons?

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 07, 2011, 02:37 AM // 02:37

The pip of health degen is trivial. If you're getting close to dying, it has nothing to do with your vamp mod. It offers more DPS than other mods (as you mention), so that's what you should use unless there is a really good reason to use something else.

Prestige · Aug 07, 2011, 02:57 AM // 02:57

[Just wanted 2 add]

Runners often ask for such a weapon because it kills the user, so if the runner gets wiped, he can continue whatever he was doing.

Fate Crusher · Aug 07, 2011, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Having 4 weapon sets means you only need to use your vampiric weapon when you unload your damage. Swap back to a defensive set or Zealous daggers (for your case as an assassin) to benefit on the fly.

Casshern · Aug 07, 2011, 07:14 AM // 07:14

If you play as an assassin, I recommend you to forget about vampiric and use only zealous(or elemental if you use conjure) and left vampiric mod for PvP warriors and dervishes... or maybe for your sin if you'll go PvP with your PvE sin(and even there I still recommend you to use zealous and elemental mods, but vampiric is nice too if you don't use conjure or don't need energy). I just think that using vamp mod in PvE doesn't make much sense

Swahnee · Aug 07, 2011, 08:28 AM // 08:28

The vampiric>sundering thing (when it comes to damage) is the result of DPS calculation, nothing more.

Then, let me note that it makes sense to do these calculations only if the fight you are going to have is really difficult, so you need to worry about maximizing your DPS (expecially PvP then).

If you are facing little mobs which go down in a few hits (most HM mobs are included here), then the fight you are having can't really be called difficult, and so it doesn't justify any calculation at all, and so you can use w/e weapon you want barely noticing any difference..

From another point of view, when the fight isn't so demanding in terms of DPS, the contribute of vampiric instead of sundering instead of anything is much less than the contribute of your build setup. This is to say that it's better to worry about taking SoH on a hero, than to worry about using vampiric instead of something else, for example.

In other circumstances, instead, you may need every drop of DPS you can produce, and so you will be concerned with choosing the best weapon mod too.

gremlin · Aug 07, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

For me Vampiric weapons are there for the odd occasion where I am in a fight and we seem to be in a stalemate and I just cannot finish off the opponent.

Last time was with Kephet Marrowfeast and it was some years back, the vampiric mod just gave me a little more to wear him down.

Not a great fan though, said it before its a flawed concept and they should have made it work in some other way.

End · Aug 07, 2011, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

The pip of health degen is trivial. If you're getting close to dying, it has nothing to do with your vamp mod.

This.

While you are fighting provided you aren't blinded or being blocked you are gaining health comes out to .25 health per second which isn't much but basically proves that if you are having health issues while fighting its nothing to do with your weapon mod. This only increases with a ias like critical agility.

While out of battle switch to another weapon. Personally, I like to switch to a longbow and start pulling the next group.

Quaker · Aug 07, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

So what's the big deal with Vampiric weapons?

Mostly, it's "leet-ism". Somebody did some calculations way back when and determined that Vamp had the most DPS (Damage Per Second). But, as Swahnee so rightly pointed out, they were basically "theoretical" calculations and have little to do with actual game play, especially in PvE. However, it became a sign of your "leet" status to spout this nonsense, so a lot of people do. Some will even go to the ridiculous extreme of saying things like "Sundering sux".

Swahnee also rightly pointed out that, in actuality, when compared to the overall DoT (Damage over Time) of your build and your party, the difference with any mod is slight. In particular, the difference between 20/20 sundering and Vampiric is negligible.

For example, years ago when I argued this subject by showing actual damage results of 20/20 vs Vamp on targets in the Isle of the Nameless, I was told that the ~50 hits I used wasn't enough - if I wanted to prove it, I would need hundreds of data results. Well, hel-lo! If it takes hundreds of hits to show a difference, then the difference is negligible!

Overall, my take on the various mods (strictly PvE) is:

Poisonous/barbed/crippling/heavy/cruel - not really useful. The few times that extending a condition actually helps, is far outweighed by the extra damage you would do with sundering or vamp.

Silencing - Most things that cause dazing are relatively short, so extending them can be beneficial, especially if your build is based upon daze/interrupt.

Icy/ebon/fiery/shocking - only useful if your build is based around that particular type of damage.

Furious - not worth the small increase in adrenaline when compared to other damage mods. Mostly only useful for things like an Imbagon where adrenaline production is more important than DPS.

Zealous - not worth the degen unless you are actually hitting multiple targets, but it is worthwhile, for some classes, to carry a zealous weapon to switch to when needed.

Vampiric - overall, not worth the hassle, but can be useful if you constantly switch weapons, and/or if you are actually hitting multiple targets.

Sundering - default go-to mod if no other mod applies. Has basically the same DoT as Vampiric, without the bother.

Outerworld · Aug 07, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Mostly, it's "leet-ism". Somebody did some calculations way back when and determined that Vamp had the most DPS (Damage Per Second). But, as Swahnee so rightly pointed out, they were basically "theoretical" calculations and have little to do with actual game play, especially in PvE. However, it became a sign of your "leet" status to spout this nonsense, so a lot of people do. Some will even go to the ridiculous extreme of saying things like "Sundering sux".

Swahnee also rightly pointed out that, in actuality, when compared to the overall DoT (Damage over Time) of your build and your party, the difference with any mod is slight. In particular, the difference between 20/20 sundering and Vampiric is negligible.

For example, years ago when I argued this subject by showing actual damage results of 20/20 vs Vamp on targets in the Isle of the Nameless, I was told that the ~50 hits I used wasn't enough - if I wanted to prove it, I would need hundreds of data results. Well, hel-lo! If it takes hundreds of hits to show a difference, then the difference is negligible!

Overall, my take on the various mods (strictly PvE) is:

Poisonous/barbed/crippling/heavy/cruel - not really useful. The few times that extending a condition actually helps, is far outweighed by the extra damage you would do with sundering or vamp.

Silencing - Most things that cause dazing are relatively short, so extending them can be beneficial, especially if your build is based upon daze/interrupt.

Icy/ebon/fiery/shocking - only useful if your build is based around that particular type of damage.

Furious - not worth the small increase in adrenaline when compared to other damage mods. Mostly only useful for things like an Imbagon where adrenaline production is more important than DPS.

Zealous - not worth the degen unless you are actually hitting multiple targets, but it is worthwhile, for some classes, to carry a zealous weapon to switch to when needed.

Vampiric - overall, not worth the hassle, but can be useful if you constantly switch weapons, and/or if you are actually hitting multiple targets.

Sundering - default go-to mod if no other mod applies. Has basically the same DoT as Vampiric, without the bother.

Claiming one thing is better than another is elitist now eh? Even if the difference is only slight, it still exists. So when asked which is better, Vamp will be the answer even if in reality it doesn't matter too much. Also -1 degen is far from a hassle...

Solid_Gold · Aug 07, 2011, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Not claiming anything here, only ever been a ranger since the game was released.

Used a vamp recurve bow for as long as I can remember.

Just because I can, I like it, and with close grouped mobs and splinter weapon I like to see all those numbers floating up.

I guess you should use the type of weapon and mods you "feel" works for you.

itiscurtains · Aug 07, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47

For my own particular playstyle I find zealous mods to be most beneficial. More energy = more attack skills. I tend to think that the five energy generated from a zealous mod over the course of five hits (well, 5 energy minus 1/3 energy per second) is often put to better use than the 15 lifesteal I would have gotten from a vampiric mod. It's been a while since I played a WoTA sin though, and as I recall that particular build already has monster e-management.

Bandwagon · Aug 07, 2011, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Mostly, it's "leet-ism". Somebody did some calculations way back when and determined that Vamp had the most DPS (Damage Per Second). But, as Swahnee so rightly pointed out, they were basically "theoretical" calculations and have little to do with actual game play, especially in PvE. However, it became a sign of your "leet" status to spout this nonsense, so a lot of people do. Some will even go to the ridiculous extreme of saying things like "Sundering sux".

Nope, there is math that backs up the fact buddy. Fortunately GW PvE is so trivial that you won't need the best of the best mods unless you are using a very specific build.

Elitism =/= math crunching. Learn your internet memes. Your over-generalization of someone's motivation to prove someone wrong when evidence is available to support the claim does not help the OP answer his question.

Quote:

For example, years ago when I argued this subject by showing actual damage results of 20/20 vs Vamp on targets in the Isle of the Nameless, I was told that the ~50 hits I used wasn't enough - if I wanted to prove it, I would need hundreds of data results. Well, hel-lo! If it takes hundreds of hits to show a difference, then the difference is negligible!

Sundering provides 20% armor pen 20% of the time. if your daggers hit, they deal 7-17 damage (this is the damage that sundering applies to). -20% armor varies with the mob your hitting, but generally results in a 40% (square root of 2 to be precise) increase in damage. 40% of 7-17 is 2.8-6.8 or 4.8 average.

So sundering grants 4.8 damage on average every 5 swings (it won't always be that amount, since this is statistics at this point, but as you keep striking the target, the number of times it activates will approach 20%).

Vampiric adds 15 damage every 5 swings.

15 > 4.8 (average)

end of discussion, Vamp is better if you want absolute max DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Overall, my take on the various mods (strictly PvE) is:

............

Sundering - default go-to mod if no other mod applies. Has basically the same DoT as Vampiric, without the bother.

This is actually untrue for martial weapons. Vamp is #1 by a large margin. If your PvE-ing its no biggie, but if your PvPing and you have full access to all the mods, you might as well aim to be the most effective.

Any Assassin player that swears by Zealous as the go to mod is silly; use Vampiric when energy is groovy, swap to zealous when its getting low. If your using Wota / Crit Eye / 13 Crit Strikes or any combination of the two, you won't need zealous 1/2 the time anyway.

Xsiriss · Aug 07, 2011, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Sundering is relatively useless to lower base damage weps like daggers and swords (but to be honest who even uses swords anymore),vampiric is hands down the better option in these cases. It is the standard weapon mode to use though,if you're lazy and don't want to bother with 'special effects'.

Vampiric is generally better as hitting multiple targets=decent health gain, it's a constant effect (not chance) and it's effects ignores armour anyway.

*lemming* · Aug 07, 2011, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Vampiric actually gets even better than Sundering in PvE as monster level and armor increases.

afmart · Aug 07, 2011, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I keep seeing recommendations to use Vampiric mods in the various PvE forums.
I've read that, numerically speaking, Vampiric weapons do more damage because of the life drain.

However, my own experience with Vampiric weapons (that being on an Assassin), have been less than stellar.

Enemies die so fast that the self-drain actually has more impact than taking health from them, even spamming dagger attacks as quickly as possible.
So I end up charging in with my Vamp daggers, killing everything in sight, then having to switch to non-Vamp daggers before my health gets too low.

Using non-Vamp daggers renders the EXACT same result, without having to worry about my own weapons killing me.

In 90% of situations, I've ended a fight thinking "Why didn't I just use my non-Vamp daggers and save myself the trouble?"

So what's the big deal with Vampiric weapons?

if used correctly it does a bit more damage and heals a little bit.
im not realy sure but i think that even if your attacks get blocked the vampiric still does that damage to the target.

usually people use vampiric mods with aoe builds (100b, splinter barrage, etc) and have another set when not in combat. for sins my favorite mod is zealous with a IAS skill

Outerworld · Aug 07, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by afmart

im not realy sure but i think that even if your attacks get blocked the vampiric still does that damage to the target.

No, you still need to hit your target.

Owik Gall · Aug 08, 2011, 03:14 AM // 03:14

I had thought of vampiric mods to be over-rated. However, it does depend on your playstyle (and how you can tolerate switching weapon sets often.) The damage difference with either Vamp or Sund is too slight for me to care for. I'd just find the best mod that will benefit your build. Like myself, I keep Furious because my build focuses on adrenaline building to pull off its tactic. Just think to yourself if your build will need it, or if you can use something different that will complement your build better than Vamp.

kedde · Aug 08, 2011, 10:58 AM // 10:58

It should never be a discussion unless your build somehow needs zealous to sustain.
The degen gets healed up by AI and partyheals and is therefore completely insignificant and out of the equation. What remains is the fact that the extra 3 armor ignoring damage per hit is the highest additional DPS you can get from any mod.

Quaker · Aug 08, 2011, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Claiming one thing is better than another is elitist now eh?

Let me put it this way - the difference between Vamp and Sundering is marginal, at best, and varies depending upon the target, situation, etc. Sometimes Vamp has the edge, sometimes Sundering has the edge.
The bottom line is that they are basically equivalent. Therefore, saying that one must use Vamp and avoid Sundering, is elitism in it's purist form.

And this is my last word on the subject - I say to the OP and anyone else following this thread - do your own tests, make up your own mind, do whatever floats your boat.

Aug 07, 2011, 02:37 AM // 02:37	#2
Marty Silverblade Administrator Join Date: Jun 2006	The pip of health degen is trivial. If you're getting close to dying, it has nothing to do with your vamp mod. It offers more DPS than other mods (as you mention), so that's what you should use unless there is a really good reason to use something else. __________________

Aug 07, 2011, 06:38 PM // 18:38	#15
lemming The Hotshot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Honolulu Guild: International District [id???]	Vampiric actually gets even better than Sundering in PvE as monster level and armor increases. __________________ Interested in GvG? Want to watch some high-level PvP? Check out some streams and recordings!

Aug 07, 2011, 02:30 AM // 02:30	#1
Absolute Destiny Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Guild: Forgotten Realms [FR] Profession: W/	What's so good about Vampiric? I keep seeing recommendations to use Vampiric mods in the various PvE forums. I've read that, numerically speaking, Vampiric weapons do more damage because of the life drain. However, my own experience with Vampiric weapons (that being on an Assassin), have been less than stellar. Enemies die so fast that the self-drain actually has more impact than taking health from them, even spamming dagger attacks as quickly as possible. So I end up charging in with my Vamp daggers, killing everything in sight, then having to switch to non-Vamp daggers before my health gets too low. Using non-Vamp daggers renders the EXACT same result, without having to worry about my own weapons killing me. In 90% of situations, I've ended a fight thinking "Why didn't I just use my non-Vamp daggers and save myself the trouble?" So what's the big deal with Vampiric weapons?

Aug 07, 2011, 02:57 AM // 02:57	#3
Prestige Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Canada [GMT -5] Guild: Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy] Profession: D/A	[Just wanted 2 add] Runners often ask for such a weapon because it kills the user, so if the runner gets wiped, he can continue whatever he was doing.

Aug 07, 2011, 04:18 AM // 04:18	#4
Fate Crusher Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pie-land Guild: Warlords Of The Underworld [WoTU] Profession: Mo/	Having 4 weapon sets means you only need to use your vampiric weapon when you unload your damage. Swap back to a defensive set or Zealous daggers (for your case as an assassin) to benefit on the fly.

Aug 07, 2011, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#5
Casshern Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2008 Guild: [Roll] Profession: Rt/A	If you play as an assassin, I recommend you to forget about vampiric and use only zealous(or elemental if you use conjure) and left vampiric mod for PvP warriors and dervishes... or maybe for your sin if you'll go PvP with your PvE sin(and even there I still recommend you to use zealous and elemental mods, but vampiric is nice too if you don't use conjure or don't need energy). I just think that using vamp mod in PvE doesn't make much sense

Aug 07, 2011, 08:28 AM // 08:28	#6
Swahnee Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Italy Profession: Mo/	The vampiric>sundering thing (when it comes to damage) is the result of DPS calculation, nothing more. Then, let me note that it makes sense to do these calculations only if the fight you are going to have is really difficult, so you need to worry about maximizing your DPS (expecially PvP then). If you are facing little mobs which go down in a few hits (most HM mobs are included here), then the fight you are having can't really be called difficult, and so it doesn't justify any calculation at all, and so you can use w/e weapon you want barely noticing any difference.. From another point of view, when the fight isn't so demanding in terms of DPS, the contribute of vampiric instead of sundering instead of anything is much less than the contribute of your build setup. This is to say that it's better to worry about taking SoH on a hero, than to worry about using vampiric instead of something else, for example. In other circumstances, instead, you may need every drop of DPS you can produce, and so you will be concerned with choosing the best weapon mod too.

Aug 07, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44	#7
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	For me Vampiric weapons are there for the odd occasion where I am in a fight and we seem to be in a stalemate and I just cannot finish off the opponent. Last time was with Kephet Marrowfeast and it was some years back, the vampiric mod just gave me a little more to wear him down. Not a great fan though, said it before its a flawed concept and they should have made it work in some other way.

Aug 07, 2011, 04:52 PM // 16:52	#11
Solid_Gold Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2009	Not claiming anything here, only ever been a ranger since the game was released. Used a vamp recurve bow for as long as I can remember. Just because I can, I like it, and with close grouped mobs and splinter weapon I like to see all those numbers floating up. I guess you should use the type of weapon and mods you "feel" works for you.

Aug 07, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47	#12
itiscurtains Academy Page Join Date: Nov 2010	For my own particular playstyle I find zealous mods to be most beneficial. More energy = more attack skills. I tend to think that the five energy generated from a zealous mod over the course of five hits (well, 5 energy minus 1/3 energy per second) is often put to better use than the 15 lifesteal I would have gotten from a vampiric mod. It's been a while since I played a WoTA sin though, and as I recall that particular build already has monster e-management.

Aug 07, 2011, 06:37 PM // 18:37	#14
Xsiriss Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2008	Sundering is relatively useless to lower base damage weps like daggers and swords (but to be honest who even uses swords anymore),vampiric is hands down the better option in these cases. It is the standard weapon mode to use though,if you're lazy and don't want to bother with 'special effects'. Vampiric is generally better as hitting multiple targets=decent health gain, it's a constant effect (not chance) and it's effects ignores armour anyway.

Aug 08, 2011, 03:14 AM // 03:14	#18
Owik Gall Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: Guardians of the Light Profession: W/Mo	I had thought of vampiric mods to be over-rated. However, it does depend on your playstyle (and how you can tolerate switching weapon sets often.) The damage difference with either Vamp or Sund is too slight for me to care for. I'd just find the best mod that will benefit your build. Like myself, I keep Furious because my build focuses on adrenaline building to pull off its tactic. Just think to yourself if your build will need it, or if you can use something different that will complement your build better than Vamp.

Aug 08, 2011, 10:58 AM // 10:58	#19
kedde Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2007 Guild: Kaons Banned Fecal Super Team [Ban] Profession: Mo/A	It should never be a discussion unless your build somehow needs zealous to sustain. The degen gets healed up by AI and partyheals and is therefore completely insignificant and out of the equation. What remains is the fact that the extra 3 armor ignoring damage per hit is the highest additional DPS you can get from any mod.